New Direct Mail Strategies to Scale Your HVAC Company’s Sales with Dave Carroll

About this Episode





Are you tired of ineffective marketing tactics that fail to generate leads for your HVAC business?

Do you feel like you’re missing out on the potential of direct mail?

Traditional direct mail methods are outdated and don’t bring in the results your business needs to thrive.

Without a targeted and effective strategy, your direct mail campaigns are just a waste of time and money.

In this podcast, we’re chatting with Dave Carroll, CEO of DOPE Marketing, on winning direct mail strategies specifically designed for HVAC companies.

David Carroll is a serial entrepreneur and the rule-breaking visionary behind DOPE. David is 36 years old and started his first business at 24, Lions Share Maintenance. Lions Share pretty much grows itself now. David has phased himself out of Lions Share over the last few years to focus on his dope new passion for direct mail, data, and the automation of traditional marketing.

Discover the best practices on how to create a direct mail campaign that will attract more leads and convert them into paying customers. and you’ll also learn…

0:20 Introducing Dave (Dope Marketing)

4:26 Direct Mail: Targeted or Not? Using Data to Succeed vs. Sending to Everyone

13:45 Direct Mail Done Right: Learn The Best Strategies and Campaigns

25:19 Unlock the Power of Direct Mail Marketing with Targeted Zip Codes

29:39 Getting Started with Direct Mail Marketing: How to Determine the Ideal Starting Budget and Strategy

34:07 Connect with Dave

34:58 Last Parting Words

Get more jobs, more referrals, and more reviews with automated direct mail from DOPE Marketing!


📢 Connect with us!

👉 Full episode can be found here:

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📢 Connect with Dave!

🌐 Check out DOPE’s Facebook account at:

🌐 Visit their website to learn more about how you can leverage the power of direct mail automation:

#businessowner #entrepreneurlife #home #homerepair #heatwaves #ac #homeservices #homeservicesbusiness #hvac #financialfreedom #hvacpodcast #directmail #automateddirectmail #directmailautomation #directmailstrategies #automatedpostcards #automatedhandwrittenmail

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Audio Transcript
Welcome to the H VAC Financial Freedom podcast. A show to help you create more revenue, profit and freedom in your life. Now, your host, John Victoria. Hello and welcome everyone to the H VAC Financial Freedom Podcast, a podcast dedicated to making you more money, more profits and more freedom in your life. And today, well, first, my name is John Victoria. I'm your host. And today our topic is how are we going to make direct mail sexy again with Mr Dave Carroll. So let's hop into it. Welcome to the show, Dave having me, man. Yeah, we are. I'm working from home today. I'm actually my bedroom. Um We have 211 inches of snow last night. Oh my gosh. It was a little bit of a weather event here in the twin cities. So kids are home getting after it. Happy, happy to be here joining you guys from the warmth of the Carol household. Oh my gosh. Yeah, man. Hope you guys. They say that is a lot of snow. I'm house shopping for what it's worth 2110, years and we just, we just got our new facility of dope. We're so blessed, but yeah, I'm trying to figure out what a winner here doesn't look like. Yes. Oh, my gosh. And congrats the new facility. And for anyone who is not familiar with dope marketing, I would love to do like a quick intro. We know it's all about direct mail, but you can tell the story best. Like, tell us about dope marketing, what you're all about. Yes. So, um, what we found is that just like direct mail is what it's, it's difficult. You gotta get a design and a list and a male house and set up your tracking. That stuff can take weeks to set up. But to it was a channel in marketing That just wasn't really getting optimized, it wasn't getting, there's not a lot of people focused on solving the problem of like how does direct mail get easier, how to get more effective. And so when I found my, my background is I own a power. I've owned a power washing company for 21500 years. I've been phased out of it for about six years. Now. That company's done seven figures for the past seven years. And I got into a goal where I wanted to be. I kind of took a step back, but I learned a lot. I cut my teeth in the home service business and learning these things. And so we were sending upwards of 216500,219003 pieces of direct mail a month, uh nine months out of the year for my cleaning company, Lion's share. And I just went through the pains of getting the list, doing the designs, ordering the pallets of E D D M and facing it myself and doing this stuff. And I always knew that there was an easier way to do this and what we found. Um so, dope is going into our third year in business. Um we're blessed and fortunate to have over 2110 clients right now on our platform. Um and we just figured out, you know, humbly how to make direct mail work um for local companies, you know, we have some strategies that now being that we've been open for a couple of years with, with the case studies, we call them playbooks at dope, we set up playbook. So a dope, we built a piece of software that does automated direct mail with no minimum order and a lot of it's based from your CRM, whether using service Titan House call pro job or whatever. Um We directly integrate with almost every CRM and the market. So when you're marking jobs approved That triggers a series of postcards to go up to the neighbors will get into some of the strategies and the cool stuff. But a dope um outside of me saying the word dope 21000 times in every sentence, it's data on previous engagement. That's what dope actually means something. Yes. Yes, yes. Um so we really try to identify the data of what's going on in your business. We don't try to be a company that comes in and has a million new wacky ideas of what you should try to hit a home run tomorrow. We're looking at things that are really working in your business, how we can add to those and add some proven strategies because you know, Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, linkedin, Twitter, whatever, um great platforms. We use them with dope. I've used them for years and years and years in my career, but I can't guarantee what's gonna happen tomorrow, what updates gonna come out, the album's gonna be affected like what's gonna go on. But one thing John, I can guarantee rain, sleet, hail, snow, six days a week, the males, males coming is coming. I love that and, and this is not your, you know, grandma's direct mail company. Um So I think there's something special. So could you maybe talk through the difference between how most companies do direct mail, which might be just, here's a list like blasted out to everybody versus some of the strategies that you're, you're talking about? Because there's, there's definitely a clear difference in like what you know, you talk about data. Can you talk more about like that distinguishing factor? Absolutely. So we think about to put ourselves in the shoes of a business owner right now in the home service, specifically the H VAC Space. And let's say, um we're someone maybe that's owned an HVAC company for 2190 2190 40 years maybe. And you've been doing something a certain way for a certain amount of time, fair to say that could probably be optimized. Um Maybe you are, you were a technician or you grew up in the trade, someone in your family did, did this type of work. And so you got into it and you got to learn as you go, you're a technician, you know how to install, you know, how to repair, you know, how to maintain. But the marketing, the sales side, maybe you're learning that a little bit. So you just watched what, what's going on before. You're just seeing the old strategies and tactics and follow the boards of the Facebook groups or whatever or your brand new. You're young hustle and what it really even matter your age, but just you're new and you're a little bit more keen to like best, best practices like technology, what's possible like that type of stuff? So where I think about like data, what's available, what's possible? I was born in 1985 and sadly, most direct mail strategies are still going on since the year I was born. You pick a zip code, you pick a target of like a homeowner with a home value maybe. And you send out 10,000 pieces of mail one time, you watch yourself sign a five figure check, you spray it all over town and you pray that you're gonna get enough work back to justify that one time payment. You compare it against your other advertising channels and you're like, I swear, I'm generating leads cheaper somewhere else. This direct mail stuff is dead. It's for dinosaurs. It doesn't really, that's like a very common thing that we hear about with dope. And thankfully, um as technology has advanced printers are computers and talk to each other. And so whether it's based off your CRM statuses on a job, neighborhoods you're working and using cool things like for mapping, maybe, maybe you could take a list of every job that you did a full system install or a maintenance plan on last year and put them on a map and see the pins on the map of where your job density is. And maybe you could set up smaller tighter direct mail campaigns aren't necessarily this shotgun spray and pray approach all over town. That was very common in the post office. Made this very easy through E D D M saturation discounts, all that stuff like, yeah, dude, you can get a bunch of mail out for really cheap. But the number one thing you should not be asking your direct mail company is like, how much am I paying for postcards? Because every printer will cut out their own legs to try to earn your business to print all the rest of your stuff and get your mail for cheap. That's not really what you want. Like the approach that we take that we look at it. Dope is data tells a story and when you are working in a neighborhood, um the neighbors have something in common and it's not that they hang out every weekend. It's not that their kids are sleeping over every night or they're cracking beers. Cheers ng over the fence in the cul de sac all the time. It's that neighbors have a lot in common from when you buy a home. Any of you homeowners out there are people who work in neighborhoods. You have an average age in the neighborhood. You have an average amount of Children in the neighborhood. Houses in the same neighborhood cost relatively the same amount of money and that's all good and great people. The home is where the hardest people live where makes them comfortable. So when your neighbors getting something done, you have something common with because you live next door to each other, you like each other enough to not move. And the other side of it though, that's more important. Your house was built around the same year of basically the same materials. It's not like you got a 1200 square foot final house next to a 5000 square foot brick mansion every other home. No, there's consistency is the same builders built this neighborhood that we lived in. And so when John's H VAC system goes out and John's in a neighborhood like my neighborhood, the majority of the houses were built in like the late nineties. They're all over 153 square feet. What does that mean? Breaks back? They don't have one system. They have to if it's over 4000. So when you go into the profile of like, why are you sending out direct mail? There's a couple of reasons you're sending out direct mail one. You want to inform people. Right. Let the neighbors know. Let's see what's going on. Your neighbor just got approved for an H VAC system. Pardon the dust? Pardon the noise. We're working in the area. Be on the lookout. The trucks are around meet the owner. Here's the company story like these tiny little billboards you can put in the mailbox, kind of educate around the services that you're doing. Harvard Business School did a study. They said it takes 7 to 11 touches for a cold consumer to remember a brand. So seeing a polo at the gas station driving by a billboard, seeing a truck wrap, seeing a Facebook ad searching on Google, visiting a website, getting a door hanger, getting a piece of mail. All these touches, but these touches have value. You know, it's, it's John what's left, what's left billboard? You saw John was last Facebook ad you saw today, man. It's probably a moment ago. But now imagine that you were seeing a Facebook ad from the company whose yard sign was across the street, whose truck you see around town every now and then because they have good branding. Who you got a postcard from who if you look up online, it doesn't completely say that these people are scam artists, they're gonna run off with you, you know, like it builds up. And so what direct mail allows you to do nowadays is get laser focused in a neighborhood. Like again, this isn't a sales pitch here. There are other companies that do this. But with dope, you can send direct mail with no minimum order. You could pick 100 people in a gated community in your area where you want to work and send a postcard every week for six weeks in a row. Is that customer going to know you better than they knew before? Yeah. And that's where old school direct Mail where it's kind of spray and pray shock. There wasn't much logic to it. You're not thinking about neighborhoods and data and years the home was built in these different things. It was out there, but it wasn't really a focus. So as marketing continued to grow and be more like targeting on Facebook Google adwords, that type of stuff. There just weren't a lot of people focused on. Do you know where the data on Facebook comes from? Comes from axiom. It comes from epsilon, it comes from corelogic. You know, those companies are before they started selling data, they would direct their list. Wow. So just a couple threads I wanna pull on here. So, you know, first, the difference between old and new is, you know, some cost efficiencies, right? Not having to do this five figure check every time you can do individual pizzas, I think. Second, as well as the technology. Um, a lot of companies now have CRM S and you can have the direct mail talk to the CRM and you can put people in different statuses and customize your campaign based off of that. And then third, it's smarter targeting, you said spray and pray, which is like before send out to 110,000 people. But now you can get smarter because you can say like the psychographic like we're targeting specific area, the demographic area. And also I think your, your, you're kind of hitting on keeping up with the Joneses, right? And if you, if you say, hey, your neighbor just got a new A C system, you're like, you're like, wait, it's like maybe I need a new, why not neighbor just did it. I trust that more than some joker on the other side of town. It was on the news like pulling on the heartstrings, letting them know. Keeping them educated. Yeah, that's, and I mean, they're just gonna talk to them anyways and it's, they're gonna give the third party validation. It was great working with them. This is awesome and then combine that with, it sounds like an omnipresence effect where it's not just the direct mail, it's the trucks, it's the billboards, it's really everything that puts it all together. It's got to align. So we got John, we got this strategy just brought it up about kind of keeping up the Joneses telling the neighbors. We got this playbook called Mr Rogers. So for anyone that's seen us online, we got those handwriting machines. We have that, that we do the handwritten notes with and it's not that fake printed stuff you get from the Cadillac dealership where you can kind of look at it and tell that it was on these things were written with blew past the Mr Rogers playbook. When you mark a job approved, you mark John's job approved at 123 main street, the nearest 10 neighbors get a handwritten note. Hey John, I just wanna let you know we're gonna be in the neighborhood next week replacing your neighbor's H VAC system. Just be on the lookout for our trucks if you've had any problems like some of your other neighbors just give me a call to rent. It's a handwritten note that goes out before you start the job. Just imagine getting that from a business owner in the mail, like handwritten note. What is this again? Just leading them towards that cycle of referencing something? You, you got the data in your business, you didn't open yesterday and you're not going out of business next year. So what's the data that you can look at in your business that will help you make these decisions. We found that really focusing on the right neighborhoods and not doing a spray and pray shotgun approach, but really dialing in letting your data tell a story of where you should start your targeting. That's been really powerful. That's amazing. Um And then I'd love to hear another campaign as we'll talk some numbers because I remember when we spoke in the past, like you have some crazy, crazy, crazy numbers with direct mail. So um yeah, let's let's talk some numbers and maybe another example like campaign someone could run. Yeah, so just to start throwing around a lot of strategies and playbooks. Let's talk about like some case study stuff. Um A larger one that we actually just got back a company was spending, isn't that huge company was spending about 10,40003 bucks a month with us on mail. Now, this company was a multi eight figure company, big advertising money or whatever. But these guys were spending about 10,000 bucks a month. Um They came and wanted to spend 40,000 month were like just, just slow down. Let's let's let's just implement some stuff. You guys got some data, you're rocking. They were a company out of P A in West Virginia And this company was spending $10,000 a month. They set up a strategy where they marked the job approved. They have a couple of sales reps on their team. So the guys like Dave or John's faces on the postcard, it's Dave's tracking number. It's Dave's QR code. Hey, we just got your neighbor approved. We're gonna be in the neighborhood, be on the lookout. The next one, just like the strategy part of the duck part of the noise. We're getting started. These guys would do a after the estimate was done, they do one handwritten note to the owner. Hey, thanks for letting us get an estimate. They saw Close rate increase. I think it was like they saw a 17% close rate over the course of the year and we'll never take all the credit for direct mail. We understand the cross channel marketing is key. It's not like you get a postcard today like, Oh my God, I need this right now. I could not live if I did not contact this company today, but it's a branding of it. So this company in West Virginia, they were doing a one of our playbooks, a brick by brick building, their trust their awareness in the neighborhood. These guys also were doing using our neighborhood blitz tool where you can draw a shape on the map and you can like filter within the shape. So like square footage value of the home age of the homeowner year, the house was built some other cool data. These guys spent 10 grand a month with us. We were able to credit back $2.1 million in work that we sent a postcard to let me break those numbers out. So what it is, we can track every single time a house gets a postcard. So all you gotta do is connect service, Titan House call whatever CRM you're using, you're going to have a list of jobs that you completed. You don't have to list, you don't have a list of prospects depending how you manage your CRM. And then when they turn into a job, it's going to associate a price. You completed that job. There's a, there's a closed deal behind it. Every single month we induce automatically or manually. You can upload your jobs into dope. We will reference the addresses where you did your jobs against the addresses we mailed to and we can show you what postcards or handwritten things or box cookies that we sent to that house over the course of any amount of time that you've been working with us on our software. So you have your list of leads. You want to upload them and say any customer that was with us last year, you can take the list of jobs they did last year. They can upload them into dope. We'll show you for every address that matches what we sent to their house on what day. And we're not gonna say that never would have happened if you didn't send the mail, but let's give credit where credit's due. So mh I company was talking about was a fascinating study. These guys had like 40003 leads. I'm gonna round numbers here. 2500 leads. Uh last year they did 825 jobs out of the 2500 leads. Out of the 2500 leads. We had sent mail to like 800 of them total out of their leads. Out of the 800 people, we had sent at least one piece of mail to 400 of them were on that list out of 825. So they're close rate in their business was it's more detailed numbers. It was like 32% close rate for this business. But the clients they sent direct mail to, they closed half the jobs, they never sent a postcard just for one house. One time, we put them on cycles and go through. I'm gonna talk about a really cool strategy in a second that they applied. But like when you look at raising the awareness in the right neighborhoods sending mail, we gotta think of direct mail for what it is. It's tiny little billboards in the mailbox. Every time you drive by a billboard advertisement or whatever awareness is getting raised, you might not know what billboard you drive by. But I guarantee you if me and you were in the car together and we started going on these billboards next. Actually, I drive this every day. I subconsciously understand this. Remember before COVID, when you knew the dentist, the restaurant, the mechanic, like in your mailbox, it never came back and it just gives us an even better advantage because the budget got taken away during COVID. When all that was going on, About 13% of those businesses never started back up their marketing mail because their businesses dramatically changed, the restaurants went out of business. The golf courses aren't as popular. The, the stuff that was going on an insurance Agent wasn't selling a lot of insurance when everyone's sitting at home. So like these things that happened, Direct mail now just plays a different part of the funnel. What's beautiful is like every good digital funnel. You can run a traditional marketing funnel in the mailbox by sending less postcards to less people. More times I would rather any client send 100 postcards four times than 400 postcards one time every day of the week. That's, and I mean, just, I'm just look at these numbers again. So a 28 to 2500 that is uh approximately like a third of that, that close. But then when we're looking at just the direct mail contacts matched, it's a 50% close. Right. So that's, that's nearly almost 20% improvement. Then that's the general average. That's, that's insane. Sending mail for 10 years before working with us. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Holy cow. Another one because I like to break down more bite sized case studies to. So you're asking about another strategy and this could be, this could be applied for any, any H VAC company, any, any local company really? Uh We talked about this a little bit out in uh last time around Costa Rica. New home buyers, new homebuyers are one of my most favorite audiences that I got one gem that I'll leave for the end for h back. I got a super targeted audience but new home buyers are one of my most favorite audiences in the world because 50-150,103 people buy a home in the United States. Every single week, every single week of the year. Nine out of 10 Americans, the biggest financial transaction, the most money they will ever exchange in their life. Nine out of 10, it's their home. There's around 80 85 million homeowners in the United States. 90% of that 80 to 85 million people. The most money they ever will exchange is a transaction for the home where they live, that piece of real estate. The 2nd, 3rd and 5003th, you would think our braces vacations cars. No, it is maintenance improvement and upkeep to that property they bought. That's number 23 and four. So if John lives on 123 main street and Dave moves next door to 1 to 5 main street, Dave and his family are gonna spend 8000 to $15,000 in cash more than John within 60 days of moving. Remember when you moved the last time you bought a house and move wherever your significant other's swiping that card. What do you need? You need a new dentist. You need a new mechanic. You need a new window cleaner. You want dear guy, you want to find a new restaurant. You gotta find the things that you're swiping your, scanning your shopping, you just moved. It's one of the biggest life events that's ever gonna happen to a human outside of having a kid or getting a big job buying the house life events cause purchases. So what if you had to feed? What if you lived in nine oh 21 oh and you want it? You served as the 65003 mile radius of nine oh 21 oh. What if every single week you had a list of people that bought a home in nine oh 21 oh and you put them on in the direct mail world? What we call a cycle week one. Welcome to the neighborhood. Week two. Here's what we do really well and why we're number one. Week three. Here's a review in a recent job we did just to establish trust. And one week four, here's a, here's a special offer. Week five, here's a fun thing to do in the area. Reminded with a special offer. Week six, the new Homebuyer special is gonna be up so claim your special offer before it's gone. Every single week, you have another week falling into that cycle. And when you get out of whether it's a four week six, let's keep it simple. Let's say it's a four week cycle. Week one. John and his family are in there. They're getting postcard one week to David, his family, they're getting postcard one. But John and his family are getting postcard two week three week four and so on to where let's just say you have 25 people a week. It's not gonna look, we can't control the number. I can control a lot of things in the world. I can't control up to buy a home in your area every single week. I have no clue. But we have averages. We can take the last 12 months. See the total of how many people moved and we divided by 12. You say John, that's probably the highest budget you're gonna spend based on the data that we have of people that moved. Let's just say it was 100 people a month, 1200 people a year, 25 people a week. First week costs 25. Next week costs 90033 25 20. Next week cost 70. By the fourth week. You've gotten into your cycle of new homebuyers where now you have a budget. You know how many people are gonna move? This is not gonna let you buy a Bentley, you're not going to change your business tomorrow, but it will be one of the most constant lead flows coming in and why I love it for h back so much is like Minnesota came out, like I told you guys guess what we got last month to two months late for Christmas, 18 inches of snow leading systems go out just like cooling systems go out in the summer in Phoenix, whatever. So with H VAC, the reason I love new homebuyers, it's not necessarily that so many people are moving. But when someone bought a house in Minnesota in December, and you've invested that money. The last stat about new homebuyers, which is the best, which I love with H bags. Why don't love selling it to roofers? Let's say we put a roof on one time in your life. John, can you tell me if you generate a lead on Facebook? Google S C O door knock and whatever? Can you guarantee me how long that person's gonna live in that house? How long is that? You have a lifetime value? Right? I can, I can get you out my maintenance plan. I can do some tune up stuff. I can tell you filters. Maybe that's gonna lead to a new system. But can you tell me how long that person's gonna live in that house that you generate a lead from yesterday? Mm I don't know if I can guarantee it with certainty, but I can guarantee with certainty really that a homeowner in the United States lives in their house for 5-7 years statistically by census. So the lifetime value of that customer, let's just say that a postcard cost a buck. Let's just use even numbers. Are you willing to spend $52 a year on a customer? To guarantee that within 5-7 years of them buying their home, they might do a full system installed. Yeah, let me know her deposit. And so it just goes into the logic a lot of times with marketing, there's always a cool bell. There's always a cool whistle. Let's go back to what? Logically makes sense. Logically, people buy homes. It's a big deal. They spend money, they're gonna live there for a while. Should we probably be marketing to those people more aggressively than we are right now? If you're watching this podcast, probably probably be a good idea. So, new homebuyers, I get a little hopped up. I love that. That's, that's genius. Um And here's a scenario for you. So let's say that right now, we have someone, they just pulled a list of their top producing zip codes um out of their serum. So like it's an old strategies mentioned or something new. Like what would we do with this list? Like, would we begin to run like the, the four by four campaign or what, what would we do with this, with this list? We've already got customers there. They've already done work what are we gonna do with it? Give me a lay up on this one, John. I appreciate we call this playbook, this tweet spots. You find the sweet spots and what you do. We built a tool in our software where you can come in. Let's say you have every job you did last year. You know what? I don't even care about your zip codes. I just care that you have the addresses. We kind of made this one simple because there is a great exercise, right? So the CRM will spit out your top performing zip codes. That kind of gets into that old strategy though because now we're kind of just shotgunning stuff out based on the zip code. What you can do in dope is you can upload your customer list and are secure data upload portal will never use it, sell it, look at it nothing. It's yours. You can filter your jobs and you can say I want to pull my last 103 jobs in this area and I want to start a campaign to send 25 postcards to the nearest neighbors of that job. So it's resetting the automation. We built this tool and I think it's even since the last time we talked about this, John, you can take right now, upload your customer list and either do this to the whole thing or create a sub list. Let's say you only want people in a certain city, a certain neighborhood, certain whatever, there's no minimum order on this. You can take an amount of jobs and say send mail to the neighbors of this nearest job. So it gets even more granular than the zip code. We built the tool that you can pop in an address. We query the neighbors and we can filter it. So you only want neighbors with a certain criteria. It's finding the sweet spots in your data. Your data is going to tell a story. We know you did jobs, we know you did a good job. The neighbors don't know about that yet. So at any time, you can upload a list of leads prospects previously completed jobs and trigger the sweet spot playbook. So you just say I want to send to the nearest 10, 25 24000 neighbors. What we won't let you do is only sent to at one time because that's pointless. You might as well go put four hanger on their door. But where we guide you in, our software is setting up a playbook, which is a strategic set of a minimum of four designs that are gonna go out if not every week, every other week, depending on your budget, your cadence kind of where you're at. And we'll work with every size business on this depending on, you know, where, where your triggers are, where your goals are like what we guide with this very well. But the idea is The neighbors nine times out of 21 had no clue what your truck was doing in the driveway. You didn't tell them, they weren't educated, they didn't know. So if you have a list of jobs from last year, last month, last week, whenever you can upload them into our system and our, our account reps will help you set up a strategic campaign to drip on the neighbors automatically and then we can set up automation to do that. So moving forward, we get that job in that status. You don't have to upload the job and use the tool. But it just happens without you lifting a finger. Wow, that's um and I think that's perfect for, for now, like in the D C Maryland, Virginia area, it is way warmer than expected across the country warmer. It is, is like people are struggling like nothing's really changed in terms of the market landscape except the demand is just dropped dramatically before. Yeah, I mean, so for us, we focus on S C O and there's not a lot we can do, you know, but it sounds like direct. This is a strategy where you just take the list, got the addresses, you could send it out just like maybe a week or two out and begin to generate seven days anywhere in the country from our system when you back out. Yeah. So we will be in mailbox, let's say we always like to give ourselves a little bit of window cause I can promise you this John six days a week, we produce the male. We give it to the post office. It's kind of in their hands from there but we do have per piece tracking. So you can see when something landed. But remember it's never going to be about one piece of mail getting to one destination. It's the cadence. It's the strategy. It's staying in the mailboxes in the right neighborhood because look, your customers have 210 problems during the day, you only solve a couple of them perfectly. But when they need what you have, you can invest in the right neighborhoods to make sure you're the company that they think of when they did it. Wow, that's awesome. And um and I know that you'll probably have to drop soon because I have another call. But the one last question I have around this would be a lot of companies that see this around 2500-26500 million range. Like what would be a good starting budget for them? You know, let's say they haven't really done direct mail before. Like, what's where are they starting? Are they starting with, you know, the campaign every single week? Are they starting with their lists? They started the home buyer, like, what's the budget and what should they start out with? So based on the goals of their business, they should really be able to identify, like, are they in a growth here? Are they going because you see the books, right? 29003 to 0003% of gross revenue is the blanketed marketing search of the question. All right, John, you're gonna make a million. You got to spend 2000 to 290,290, bro. Thanks, dude. 85 strategy. What you want to look at is what is your most profitable job And what is the job you generate the most leads for? And most businesses we work with those are two separate answers. Like my power washing company, we make the most money when we go out to the baller estate. And I got three guys working out there for two days straight building $275 an hour. And we slang. So it's pretty problem. The, the jobs we generate the most leads for our gun cleaning. So if you look at H VAC, if you have a tuneup maintenance place, some type of speculate that less than $100 offer to get your foot in the door. A lot of companies we see like that's their main lead magnet. Now, they get their foot in the door and they're working towards the right neighborhood or where they're going. What I would say for any H V A C company to get started, that's in the 3 to 5 million range. You could see a very good return on investment spending anywhere from like 1000 to 903 bucks a month on direct mail and you should be able to double your investment coming back in there. Look, don't hold me to any of that because I promise there's strategies, there's things we need to do to make that happen. But if you implement brick by brick where you're getting in front of the neighbors, like you're getting a job approved and you're putting more work in that you're putting right now into the neighbors knowing what's going on. You throw in some new Homebuyer stuff because dude, there's gonna be some singles and doubles. There's a grand slammer too in that new Homebuyer database. Like you're gonna get some family that just bought a home and the person didn't do the system and the house is 4500 square feet. That's not a small job. And there's a couple of those depending on the zip code you're working and where you're going. MTV Cribs is another playbook I really like because it focuses on what we were talking about. It's like houses that were older than 15 years old that are over 4000 square feet or whatever it is in your area. Right? I don't keep trying to go to that number. I just know enough about H V A C that it's like, what is it under 4000? You have 1 10,500, you have to 6500 and 9003, 10,000 plus, you have four, we pull like you can draw on our map tool and only pull homes of a certain square footage, like you could pull a whole zip code and only like so we get into if you were to, to come to dope marketing and say I saw John's podcast, I'm watching what you guys are doing. I want to talk about this. I could, my team won't be me. My team can give you a strategy based on your location. What you did in revenue last year. How many crews you have in the field? Like making sure you got a realistic goal for growth. It's it's less than five grand a month for sure. And we can go much lower than that to get started where you should be able to see a double return on investment at a bare minimum. But that's not including any branding value, neighborhood awareness getting out there. You know, everyone from high school that gets your postcards every week thinking you're a big deal like none of that. All that aside. Straight R O I, the best thing John with our thing budget aside, we have no minimum order. You can literally spend anything you want. We have crew roo eye tracking and reporting that we can show you within it takes 90 days with direct mail to see what's going on. But again, It didn't open yesterday and you're not closing your business next year. So within 90 days, you should be able to have some baselines to set very realistic budgets based off your goal to really back out and track reports. And I'll tell you this, we couldn't do that a year and a half ago, but we don't so that it could show this stuff because it's important. That's insane. Um And so someone's interested, they want to get started today, like, where are they going? How they get in touch with your team? I'm the bald guy yelling and swearing about direct mail in the interwar. Well, don't marketing D O P E marketing dot com. If you search it on Facebook, you might get this little pop up saying you're trying to buy drugs on the internet. You're not. I love it. Okay. So everyone just check out dope marketing and um and Dave, I know you got to run in a bit but amazing, amazing strategies. There's strategies around demographic psychographic, exact things you're riding with email with direct mail. And so I think it's worth a shot. I mean, it's a minimum of two times R O I plus people need instant results right now with how slow things are. I think that this is something worth trying out if you haven't already done some direct mail. So um Dave, I wanna say thanks so much. Any last parting words before we hop off, I, I was talking to a coach of mine before this call and Dr Trish gave me a gem. I've been on this health and wellness journey. You're getting better at what you're doing right now. So focus on what you're spending your time on. I love that man dropping bombs, Dave. Thank you so much for your time. I know you're a super busy guy and I hope everyone had some great takeaways from this session. Um You're looking forward to all the things that come for your business and yeah, thank you for joining us and we will catch you on the next one. Take care everyone. Thank you for joining us for the H VAC Financial Freedom Podcast. Follow us on Stream Yard Apple podcast, Spotify, Amazon music and check out our main website www dot H vac financial freedom dot com to find out how you can also achieve financial freedom.

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